4e Rituals in 3e

Meikle641 · Post by **Meikle641** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:34 am

Is there much of a problem is porting them back nearly wholesale? A lot suck compared to actual spells, but then again they're rituals people can use.

If I did port them back, should I keep the cost of them? Some are retarded in their cost, but others are barely worth mentioning. Since 3.x doesn't use use Treasure Parcels it seems like less of an issue, but you folks know more than I.

So, what are your thoughts?

Krakatoa · Post by **Krakatoa** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:49 am

Unless you just literally can't get your group to switch, it sounds like you'd have better luck trying to port the useful-but-not-broken spells from 3.x to 4e. 4e Rituals, as you mentioned, kind of suck compared to 3.x spells. Plus it would further imbalance 3.x in favor of primary casters unless you let every class use them.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:27 pm

Krakatoa wrote:Unless you just literally can't get your group to switch, it sounds like you'd have better luck trying to port the useful-but-not-broken spells from 3.x to 4e. 4e Rituals, as you mentioned, kind of suck compared to 3.x spells. Plus it would further imbalance 3.x in favor of primary casters unless you let every class use them.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Aharon · Post by **Aharon** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:16 pm

I thought that's the case with rituals anyway? Anybody can use them, arcane/divine classes are just better at it?

It would probably an interesting solution for a high magic game - rituals for free and for anyone. Wouldn't do a lot about the combat aspects of the game though, soyou might still want to use houserules for that.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:18 pm

Note that there's a ritual system in Unearthed Arcana, although it doesn't come with a bunch of pre-made rituals like 4E does (which could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on what you're looking for).

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:56 pm

Yeha, "Invocations", I believe. That's really what 4e Rituals are.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:05 pm

"Incantations", actually.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:37 pm

mean_liar wrote:Yeha, "Invocations", I believe. That's really what 4e Rituals are.

I'm not a 4E expert, but aren't 4E rituals more like scrolls that anyone can use?

Krakatoa · Post by **Krakatoa** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:39 pm

hogarth wrote:
mean_liar wrote:Yeha, "Invocations", I believe. That's really what 4e Rituals are.
I'm not a 4E expert, but aren't 4E rituals more like scrolls that anyone can use?

Not exactly. They require a Feat, which primary casters get at creation, and have both a material components cost, and a required ammount of time that it takes to cast them. You can't really use them in combat because the time-cost is measured in minutes instead of rounds.

Meikle641 · Post by **Meikle641** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:22 am

Yeah, I've seen the UA method,b ut they have fuck all for rituals, and 4e has mostly compatible ones right out of the box. My game is fairly high-magic you could say, so I think it could work. Especially might help with the lack of Crafters. Party will soon be the highest level dudes around.

Krakatoa · Post by **Krakatoa** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:02 am

I think the Enchant Item ritual is basically the most concise and reasonable method of crafting magic items in any edition, so that's definitely something to look at importing.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:40 pm

hogarth wrote:
mean_liar wrote:Yeha, "Invocations", I believe. That's really what 4e Rituals are.
I'm not a 4E expert, but aren't 4E rituals more like scrolls that anyone can use?

They use materials which cost (too much) gold, and require a skill check to function. Everything is either Arcane, Divine, or Primal, but there's a shitload of overlap. Each label has an attendant skill (Nature, Arcana, Religion).

I think its a fantastic idea, but needs refining:

1. Too few labels, and I dislike the degree of overlap very much. I like magic in neat little boxes with some internal logic rather than the DnD "it's magic!" rationale.

2. They cost too damn much.